One of the questions sure to spark a sharp debate is the question of whether secession was constitutional at the time of the secession crisis of 1860-61. Yes, I know there’s an argument on whether secession’s constitutional today, but, frankly, that’s a different argument, given a few events such as Texas v. White (1869). To this day, however, people flatly declare that secession is or is not constitutional, followed by comments that suggest that they question the sanity if not the intelligence of anyone who holds a contrary view.
As a historian, what’s important to me is that Americans in 1860-61 disagreed over whether secession was constitutional. Some people said yes, some people said no. There had been much discussion of this issue ever since the framing of the Constitution itself, and no one emerged with an argument that was satisfactory to all. Moreover, even those people who argued for nullification, interposition, and ultimately secession offered a somewhat different procedure than that used in 1860-61, which was, basically, a preemptive first strike by the original seven seceding states, followed by muddled (and sometimes simply ignored) procedures in several other states that either seceded or contemplated it. Moreover, to cite the Hartford Convention as some sort of justification for what happened in 1860-61 is bizarre, because the Hartford Convention was not a secession convention and its participants were largely discredited. Then again, people who cite the Hartford Convention as an example of secession are basically advancing the argument that fringe Federalist New Englanders = Federalist New Englanders = New England = the “North,” much like they argue that Pro-Democratic Irish immigrants in New York = the North when they cite the Draft Riots of 1863 as an example of northern racism, or that Lincoln’s remarks at Charleston = Grant’s ownership of a slave = the war was not about slavery. Then again, I’ve seen the revolution of colonies equated with secession, which simply isn’t a very good comparison, but then I hope that by now you are beginning to learn that historical accuracy is not behind these arguments.
If we are interested in historical accuracy, we’d have to conclude that Americans disagreed about the constitutionality of secession. But what if they had agreed? Well, much depends on the nature of what is agreed. If Americans had agreed that secession was constitutional, then the odds are that the Southern Confederacy would have gone off, seven states strong, and eventually found itself an economic colony of Great Britain, before the discovery of alternative sources of cotton drove the Confederacy into a major crisis and implosion between the increasing number of enslaved humans, the lack of new territory, and the decline in cotton prices. Oh well.
What, then, if Americans had agreed that secession was unconstitutional? In that case, I still see a case made for southern separation in the 1850s. Having lost control of the House and now having lost control of the executive branch, and with northern Democrats divided from their southern partners, I can easily see white southerners arguing for independence. The nature of the impending crisis would not be different. Arguments for self-determination and tyranny would have held greater sway. The emergency of the moment would still be the same.
That said, the historical fact is that Americans in 1860-61 disagreed over the constitutionality of secession. Advocates on both sides employed the language of the Constitution in different ways. Indeed, both sides rested their arguments on particular interpretations of various clauses. So it remains today when people revisit that argument.
Of course, you may disagree … but isn’t that my point?
Legislated secession or unilateral secession?. there is a difference, I don’t think a state can just quit as they tried in the 1860s but I’d think Congress could allow it through the legislative process and I always felt that if they had tried that route in 1860 they might have succeeded.
if unilateral secession was constitutional then Congress would have been insane to create new states from commonly held territory as making it a state would be tantamount to giving the land away.
imagine, get approved for statehood on Monday and secede on Tuesady, yeah that makes sense.
However, who was talking about legislated secession in 1860-61?
“To shew the absurdity — Congress have the right to admit new states. When territories they are subject to the laws of the Union. The day after admission, they have the right to secede and dissolve it.”
Andrew Jackson to Martin Van Buren, 25 December 1832
Bassett, Life of Jackson, II: 579-580
I contend that Constitutionality is irrelevant to what happened in 1860. In its declaration of causes for secession, South Carolina argued that “the failure of one of the contracting parties to perform a material part of the agreement, entirely releases the obligation of the other” and concludes that “the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.” The Constitution could have said “No State May Ever Secede” and South Carolina could still make the same argument and still claim that it is free from the Union.
I do agree with this. Had the Constitution stated that secession is totally illegal, the slave states would still have attempted secession. And had the Constitution stated that any state at any time for any reason can walk away, the North would have gone to war over Sumter.
Somehow I doubt Sumter happens if secession is seen as constitutional.
Question? South Carolina was one of the 13 colonies and one of the original states. So would a state like South Carolina have a better “legality of secession argument” than states latter admitted like Alabama or Mississippi? I agree,> “I contend that Constitutionality is irrelevant to what happened in 1860.”< I believe South Carolina the state that started the secession frenzy would have seceded regardless if secession was constitutional or not constitutional. I believe fire-eaters like Nathaniel Beverly Tucker and Laurence M. Keitt had been sewing secession seeds for some time , the seeds that lead to South Carolina's secession. Nathaniel Beverley Tucker's rhetoric goes back as far as the 1830's. My thought on if "secession was constitutional" is our Constitution seems to always be in some type of debate and if Constitutional Scholars,that are way out of my league can't agree on its interpretation and and Supreme Court Justices just about always have split decisions and don't agree on Constitutional issues leads me to my conclusion and that its 'Inconclusive'. Guess that's not a standard answer. I would probably get an F on that answer
Charles, for what it’s worth, the Supremes explicitly rejected the right of secession in 1869 in Texas v. White:
Now granted, that was during Reconstruction. But never having been overturned, it remains the law of the land today. What would happen if such a question arose today? It might be worthwhile to know the views of Associate Justice Scalia, one of the Supreme Court’s most conservative members, a member of the Federalist Society and, generally speaking, an “Originalist” on Constitutional issues. If any member of the Supreme Court should be receptive to the notion of secession, it should be Scalia. But he doesn’t believe it would even be accepted by the Supremes for a hearing:
There was room for legitimate debate over the right of lawful secession in 1860. But I doubt any legal scholar of substance believes that to be the case in 2011.
I should also say that Ned, Bob and James are substantively correct — by the end of 1860 South Carolina and the other Deep South states were going regardless, and the right of secession was largely a rationalization to justify it.
“followed by comments that suggest that they question the sanity if not the intelligence of anyone who holds a contrary view.”
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Well, quite obviously, those who hold a view contrary to mine on this issue deserve to have both their sanity and their intelligence, as well as their honesty, questioned. ; )
Seriously, though, while I grant the consitutionality of unilateral secession was a more or less open question in 1860 and 1861, today it’s settled law. There were even some significant confederates in 1860 and 1861 who said quite clearly they didn’t believe unilateral secession was constitutional, and who said equally clearly they didn’t care.
While I am guilty of participating in my share of debates on this issue, and I even have what I consider a solid argument in my favor, it is obvious that there was no agreement on 1860-61. But many of the secessionists were going to do what they did regardless. Something that has always puzzled me about modern Confederate romantics is their insistence on the strict legality of what happened in the formation of the Confederacy. Of course, I understand their problem: Once you admit that your course of action might not be strictly legal, you essentially admit that folks can oppose it. Thus, “legality of secession” is a touchstone for “the Confederacy as victim” argument.
After the European revolutions of 1848, both North and South saw their country as “exceptional” and a grand experiment in Republicanism and Democracy when compared tothe chaos of Europe. “The Last Best Hope…” When sectional conflict over slavery brought war, both sides believed they were fighting to maintain those founding principles (each with a drastically different view of those principles). The debate over the constitutionality of secession is a hopeless one as some will simply refuse to accept the logic of your analysis. That being said, it doesn’t mean we should not have this discussion.
Dear Sir,
Article 1, Section 10 para. 1,2,3 :
“No state shall enter into any treat, alliance or confederation,…”
It seems the Confederate States of America was created as a confederation. Thus secession is unconstituitional.
To paraphrase Lincoln, no group of people would create a nation with the seeds of its own destruction written into its constitution. The Founding Fathers were specific when they wanted a power conferred or denied to a person or state.
I put forth the following hypothesis:
First, that in 1860-61, the constitutionality of secession was less of an open issue than we claim. The nullification crisis of the 1830s and the crisis of 1850 showed some widespread acceptance of the unconstitutionality of secession. Thus in 1860, South Carolina avoided the issue with its argument that the obligations of the Constitution had been voided. Other states followed suit.
Second, only after the fact did the question of Constitutionality assume the level of importance it is given today. As Jim stated early in the comments ““legality of secession” is a touchstone for “the Confederacy as victim” argument.”
We must remember not to look upon the Founding Fathers as Gods, nor make the Constitution the bases of our Morality. The Founding Fathers did not create nor invent the “rights of men”. What they did was to discover them, and describe them to the best of their ability. What “rights” men have is a progressive revelation, but in reality is a privilege based on economic power and force of arms. What People think, feel, or believe does not necessarily translate into the interpretation of Law. Land= prosperity, and prosperity= wealth and power. Politics is an emphasise to control wealth, and the reality is Law. President Lincoln, as an elected official, exercised to Preserve the Union by the power of his Oath as applied to the Preamble (Though the Preamble does not grant powers, it shows scope, purpose and intent.) President Lincoln knew losing the South would be a great loss in prosperity, and acted accordingly in the best economic interest of the United States. Idealism does not necessarly translates into passiveness. “Give me Liberty or give me Death” goes hand in hand with “Save the Union” as aggresive respones.
Like many Supreme Court Cases, the Justices on the majority side of Texas v. White failed to do something; They did not decide the case using the U.S. Constitution as it’s justification. Read the majority opinion; is the U.S.C. even referred to?
I think what’s more revealing is how the principles behaved prior to, during and after the Civil War.
For instance; During Reconstruction, southerners were compelled to sign allegiance oaths before being allowed to reenter the Union. If considered to have never left, why would they have to?
Simple. People aren’t states, and vice-versa. That’s why the petition drive is a bit confused. Although the word “secede” need not refer only to states (sorry, Connie), the petitions are acts of individuals petitioning the federal government to consider an action. To me, if those people don’t want to remain citizens of the United States, there’s a fairly simply way for them to renounce their citizenship. Otherwise, they need to act through their states and work with their fellow citizens in those states. It appears to me that they are circumventing the procedures in the very process they cite.
As for Texas v. White, I suggest you read the decision. Here it is. You would not have made the statement you offered if you had.