This Day in History: July 10, 2015

The flag is down. The struggle and the discussion continues.

55 thoughts on “This Day in History: July 10, 2015

  1. Sandi Saunders July 10, 2015 / 10:29 am

    The struggle will continue as long as people claim revisionist history was reality, abuses of the flag are negligible and that anyone who speaks against flying the flag outside of proper venues is just “ignorant” of the facts. I am Southern to my bone marrow but I am deeply ashamed of the comments so many feel led to make in supposed “defense” of that flag.

    • Rosieo July 10, 2015 / 7:04 pm

      It is okay to be in the process of accomplishing something good.. .. there is pride in that.

    • Joe Longino July 11, 2015 / 11:48 am

      Never in history has there been such an effort to revise the written record denigrate anything as much as the emotionalism and innuendo surrounding the Southern Cross flag. That flag is not to blame for the deaths of the South Carolina citizens. Racial hatred and madness is to blame. The Confederate States of America was not about slavery at its core. It was about the right of a people to separate themselves from governance with which they disagreed. No different than the thirteen colonies which became states in 1776. By the way, did everyone celebrate the Fourth of July this year? Did you think about your hypocrisy in doing so? States that were confederated in breaking away from Great Britain in each and every case condoned slavery.

      • MSB July 11, 2015 / 4:30 pm

        Given the choice to believe the seceders about their motive (slavery) or you, I believe them; they were there.

        • Laqueesha July 11, 2015 / 7:10 pm

          Apparently the neo-Confederates know better than the actual ones!

          • Billy B July 12, 2015 / 4:22 pm

            it would be crazy for any state to try and form its own nation, it just would never work. The key is to simply make sure the 10th amendment is supreme. I don’t even know why people want the federal government to be so strong. it just causes so many issues.

          • Jimmy Dick July 12, 2015 / 6:26 pm

            Yet, the 10th Amendment is not supreme nor was it intended to be supreme. That is what the Supremacy Clause was for. The 10th dealt with the issue of federalism. That was all it was about, powers of a state. The men who wrote the Constitution meant for the federal government to be supreme over that of the states. The ratification debates showed that.

            Why do people want the federal government to be so strong? The states have been the biggest violator of the people’s rights. That is why. The federal government is not always right. That is plainly obvious. It makes mistakes and will do so in the future. Ben Franklin pointed out that error concern himself. The federalism system may not be perfect, but nothing better has come along to replace it.

            We saw an attempt to create a nation that preferred a weak central government. That attempt was not working very well and was in my opinion in danger of collapsing in the future as the system of government it relied upon gave the states too much power.

      • Billy B July 13, 2015 / 6:26 am

        Joe Longino, you seem to know your history.

  2. Jimmy Dick July 10, 2015 / 10:35 am

    It should never have been created in the first place.

    • Laqueesha July 10, 2015 / 2:03 pm

      Indeed. Having C.S. monuments in the U.S. is like having IJA monuments in Nanjing. It’s wrong.

      • Lyle Smith July 10, 2015 / 7:52 pm

        No it isn’t Laqueesha. Japan and China weren’t fighting a civil war. They were two totally different nations.

        Furthermore, it is important for us to remember our history and realize that monuments put up years ago are not about us, but about the people who put them up. Removing them is removing history. What better way for future Americans, 200 years from now, to learn about the Lost Cause then being able see all the Lost Cause monuments for themselves?

        • Erik July 11, 2015 / 2:29 pm

          Why would the US honor those that tried to split it into “two totally different nations”? It’s absurd.

          • Billy B July 12, 2015 / 4:33 pm

            Eric, it is absurd to you, but not to everyone else, should we simply bow down to your thoughts and obey what you and people like you say? Once again, every state is different with different environmental and cultural constraints, and things just happen, but for people to simply want to whitewash history because they think that something is wrong to them is just what I would call evil.

            In biology, biodiversity is important and preservation of different organisms is important, the same thing should be said for different cultures, as long as they are not themselves destructive to the overall life-force of society. How can anyone judge people trying to hang on to the Confederate Flag as being destructive. The people of South Carolina voted on this issue years ago, just leave them alone.

            Personally, I find what Massachusetts and other states have done on Same Sex Marriage to be offensive over the years, However, I have not been so angry as to say Massachusetts should have to change their laws on Same Sex Marriage. The only thing that bothered me is that now Massachusetts and crazy liberals have said that same Sex Marriage is the law of the land.

        • Erik July 11, 2015 / 2:31 pm

          Indeed, the flags that were put up in the late 50s/early 60s do tell us about those that put them up.

          • Laqueesha July 11, 2015 / 7:08 pm

            Don’t forget the monuments too. They went up with the rise of Jim Crow. No surprises there.

      • Joe Longino July 11, 2015 / 11:53 am

        You are misguided, ma’am. At least President Eisenhower disagreed with you. His letter from his archives below.

        August 9, 1960

        Dear Dr. Scott:

        Respecting your August 1 inquiry calling attention to my often expressed admiration for General Robert E. Lee, I would say, first, that we need to understand that at the time of the War between the States the issue of secession had remained unresolved for more than 70 years. Men of probity, character, public standing and unquestioned loyalty, both North and South, had disagreed over this issue as a matter of principle from the day our Constitution was adopted.

        General Robert E. Lee was, in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. He believed unswervingly in the Constitutional validity of his cause which until 1865 was still an arguable question in America; he was a poised and inspiring leader, true to the high trust reposed in him by millions of his fellow citizens; he was thoughtful yet demanding of his officers and men, forbearing with captured enemies but ingenious, unrelenting and personally courageous in battle, and never disheartened by a reverse or obstacle. Through all his many trials, he remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his faith in God. Taken altogether, he was noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history.

        From deep conviction, I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s calibre would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities, including his devotion to this land as revealed in his painstaking efforts to help heal the Nation’s wounds once the bitter struggle was over, we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.

        Such are the reasons that I proudly display the picture of this great American on my office wall.

        Sincerely,

        Dwight D. Eisenhower

        Source:
        Dwight D. Eisenhower Presidential Library, “Dwight D. Eisenhower, Records as President, 1953-1961; White House Central Files, President’s Personal File Series, Box 743, Folder: PPF 29-S Lee, General Robert E.Lee”

        • Billy B July 13, 2015 / 6:34 am

          Mr Joe Longino:

          Great post, but you will never sway most of these people to change their views about the Confederate Flag. This is all about something deeper. I am sure most of these people have issues with so many things with America, and in their collective minds, they think by removing the Confederate Flag, then they can make even more changes to our society.

  3. Leo July 10, 2015 / 10:45 am

    God Bless America!

    I can’t wait for the day this happens in Mississippi.

    • Laqueesha July 10, 2015 / 10:07 pm

      “The Union forever, hurrah boys! Hurrah! Down with the traitor, up with the star!”

      • Joe Longino July 11, 2015 / 11:58 am

        And who is the traitor you mention?

        • Jimmy Dick July 11, 2015 / 3:29 pm

          It would be anyone fighting for the Confederacy or working voluntarily on their behalf.

          • Laqueesha July 11, 2015 / 7:18 pm

            And anybody committing treason under the definition provided by the U.S. Constitution, which would include the Confederacy.

          • Billy B July 13, 2015 / 6:37 am

            Jimmy:

            Nobody of consequence wants to break away from America now, it just would never work.

            I am sure there are real hate groups out there that do, you should spend your time concentrating on those people.

      • Joe Longino July 11, 2015 / 12:15 pm

        And what will be blamed when there are no Southern Crosses flying and racial hatred is manifested by the next madman?

  4. Laqueesha July 10, 2015 / 11:44 am

    150 years after Appomattox, but hey, better late than never!

  5. Billy B July 10, 2015 / 2:01 pm

    America will not be great again like it use to be until we remove all other items which show racism. First, any account of Abraham Lincoln needs to destroyed, because Lincoln thought blacks were inferior to whites, and wanted to send blacks back to Africa. The America Flag has oppressed blacks as well, why not simply have a new American Flag that is Red, White, and Black? That would solve everything, and I thought of it first.

    Everyone go call your congressman now and make sure we clean up America’s racist relics once and for all, but we need to do this peacefully.

    Also, please vote for Bobby Jindal in 2016, he is a uniter, and America needs him.

    • Laqueesha July 10, 2015 / 2:17 pm

      Not sure if trolling or just daft…

    • Jimmy Dick July 10, 2015 / 3:06 pm

      Amusing. The idea of Jindal even winning the nomination is hilarious. As for Lincoln, if you studied history you might learn some history. I really suggest Foner’s book, The Fiery Trial of Abraham Lincoln.

      You sound so much like a certain individual who sound these very same things with the exception of the Jindal joke. That is new.

      • Laqueesha July 10, 2015 / 5:37 pm

        Damn it, Jimmy sets things straight again!

        • Billy B July 13, 2015 / 6:39 am

          Laqueesha,

          You are smarter than Jimmy Dick, and you know it.

      • Billy B July 10, 2015 / 5:46 pm

        Jindal will either be the VP or the Presidential candidate.

        • Jimmy Dick July 10, 2015 / 6:29 pm

          I never place bets on who a VP will be. That is too volatile. In any event, the GOP is playing for second place. The first debate will be interesting though. I think it will be a massive strike on Trump to expose him as a one trick pony while the other candidates suffer no damage so as to not lose any standing points in order to make the field for the second debate. Any candidate who fails to make it into the first two debates will be on life support. Miss the third one and they’re gone.

          Here is the latest polling results. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/09/politics/gop-debate-top-ten-polling-fox/index.html

          Jindal does not place in the top ten. In fact he is next to last. Now, we have to give some room for growth here. The first debate is in three weeks and six days. Fox is running the show (you can insert the word manipulate here; we all know the whole thing is about ratings) so they will have the final say on how many candidates participate and who they are.

          Personally, I am not worried. I like the debates because they bring out some of the qualities we need to see in the candidates. They need to be issue driven. Tough questions should be asked. I want to see them take positions and hold them. The ones who can’t handle a debate won’t make it very far. It exposes the weaker ones and often reveals them to be someone other than the crafted image they’ve tried to construct via the media.

          • Billy B July 11, 2015 / 5:48 am

            I hope Jindal can do well and find a place in the first debate, I keep up with the polls as well. I do like him, he seems to be toughest on the biggest issue, and that is immigration. as a nation we need to start being picky on immigration, and not simply allow Mexico to export their unemployed or unwanted to America.

        • Andy Hall July 10, 2015 / 6:34 pm

          Jindal will either be the VP or the Presidential candidate.

          There are a lot of Democrats hoping for exactly that.

      • Joe Longino July 11, 2015 / 12:02 pm

        Actually there is substantial scholarship, I underscore…scholarship…that shows that Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant on par with anyone in world history. Emotionally you might not want to believe it, but the historical record is there…particularly if you believe what the man said is who we was. i know no other way to determine that about history because I was not there to know him.

        • Jimmy Dick July 11, 2015 / 3:30 pm

          Show your sources. Would one of them be written by a guy named DiLorenzo? The historical record rejects what you just said.

  6. The Lamp July 10, 2015 / 4:20 pm

    Hey Brad, this is for you!!! Poor baby…LOL!!

  7. Rosieo July 10, 2015 / 6:57 pm

    Why is a troll permitted to hijack this thread? This thread.

    • Billy B July 13, 2015 / 6:39 am

      What is a troll?

  8. Andy Hall July 10, 2015 / 7:38 pm

    After years of ridiculing the NAACP boycott of South Carolina over the flag in Columbia, the True Southrons have come up with a response to today’s events. You’ll never guess what it is.

    • Jimmy Dick July 10, 2015 / 9:23 pm

      How was that boycott of Lexington? You know, for the first time in a long time I feel like going to South Carolina. Removing that flag has shown me the people of that state are rejecting the racism that has been an impediment to them for too long a time.

      • Laqueesha July 10, 2015 / 10:15 pm

        Now, if only Mississippi can follow suit.

      • Leo July 10, 2015 / 10:17 pm

        There’s always Mississippi. Our governor is doing his best George Wallace impression and what little dignity we have as a state is going down the drain. There are good people here, both black and white, fighting for a new flag. We are just being stymied by shortsighted politians who are afraid of tea party challenges in the next election cycle.

        As things stand now, I don’t see a change happening here in my life time.

        It’s truly embarrassing.

      • Billy B July 11, 2015 / 5:49 am

        I am sure that in the next election cycle, the flag will be back up.

        • Jimmy Dick July 11, 2015 / 3:33 pm

          I’m pretty sure it won’t. The people of South Carolina wanted the rag down. It’s down. They don’t want it back up. The heritage buffoons won’t get it back up either. Their boycott won’t even be noticed. See the State of Virginia for the heritage impact there. All the heritage buffoons can do there is put up flags and look stupid. Now they look like racists as well.

          • Laqueesha July 11, 2015 / 4:01 pm

            Look like? I’m sure they are.

          • Billy B July 13, 2015 / 6:06 am

            Jimmy,

            It will likely be back up again.

            Can you show me a poll that states the people in South Carolina will not have it back up in the next election?

            Also, why are you so anti Confederate Flag? Polls show that the people in the South do not see the flag as racist, what is your problem with allowing them to keep their flag? You are not even from the South, and from what I have read in your posts, you have never even been to South Carolina.

            You sound ignorant, and basically someone that likes to argue about things that are not your business, like I said earlier, we have a 10th Amendment, states do have rights. You really have no argument in this issue, go worry about your home state. I am sure minorities are mistreated in your home state worse than they are in South Carolina.

    • Bruce Martin July 14, 2015 / 12:42 pm

      Hang the flag upside down?

  9. TFSmith July 11, 2015 / 9:29 am

    Setting aside the neo-confederate trolling, there were a couple of points in this exercise that I was impressed by:

    1) no honors were rendered; no hand salute, no present arms, no music (other than the crowd, whose choice of the “USA” chant and the “nah-nah-nah” song demonstates that at least popular culture had moved on from the “old south standards.”

    2) of the detail (seven officers) two are of obvious African-American ancestry, including the detail leader. South Carolina is (currently, IIRC) roughly 30 percent AA, so that actually tracks reasonably welll. Not sure if the State Police reflect that, but it is an interesting point.

    3) The detail was from a professional civilian law enforcement agency, notably an agency that serves the entire state; it was not the state’s defense force (either NG on state duty or State Guard), much less any sort of “reenactor” or “heritage” organization.

    My point in this is someone thought this through, and very well. I would hope when the state flag is lowered in Mississippi and elsewhere, and they are removed from the Capitol, something equally well done is based on this model.

    And yes, down with the traitor, up with the star …

    Best,

    • Laqueesha July 11, 2015 / 2:44 pm

      I noticed that as well. Props to S.C. for not rendering honors.

  10. Bill Underhill July 11, 2015 / 5:15 pm

    A bit too much “reverence” for that flag in its folding a la the Stars and Stripes.

  11. T F Smith July 12, 2015 / 4:40 am

    Actually, the Stars and Stripes are folded into the well-known triangle, showing the canton; the flag lowered from the staff in front of the SC Capitol was, if I am not mistaken, rolled and bound. Not the same treatment at all. Again, it was treated respectfully, but not reverently. This was well thought out.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s