33 thoughts on “Prospects for Secession In Alabama, 2015

  1. robert basin August 29, 2015 / 5:51 pm

    I’m confused. Why would Alabama succeed? Or any other Southern State? Wasn’t it ultra-conservative Governors with the help of other ultra conservatives in the southern statehouses who pulled the flags down?

  2. Jimmy Dick August 29, 2015 / 7:02 pm

    There was an individual over on Rob’s blog who stated that the flag crowds were getting bigger, that the flag was not about racism, and that the people using the flag were doing so for what the flag stood for, state’s rights. I think this article validated my opinion which is that the flag crowds are small, the flag was and is about racism, and that the use of the CBF rag today is about modern political ideology which in that case means the people don’t know their history.

    I love the secession stuff. It just shows a complete inability to understand the Constitution. It also shows a realization that the views of those who desire secession are a minority and fast disappearing.

  3. bob carey August 30, 2015 / 5:09 am

    If Alabama were to secede would the Crimson Tide be eligible for a National Championship?

    • neukomment August 30, 2015 / 8:04 pm

      Moot point. The Tide would have to bust the Buckeyes, and as such will not be seeing a National Championship for some time to come….. 🙂 #BIgTen.

  4. Jarret Ruminski September 5, 2015 / 6:56 pm

    Do Confederate “Heritage” folks include desertion as part of their honoring of Rebel soldiers? Hmm…

  5. Connie Chastain September 5, 2015 / 11:48 pm

    Mr. Ruminski, I have an ancestor who either deserted or was captured, and not only took the oath allegiance to the union; he joined the union army in Nashville and, family legend said, they sent him out west to fight Indians. I located his civil war records some years ago and he was indeed discharged at Leavenworth, KS, but I don’t know if he fought Indians out there. Family legend also said he was proud of his union service and when he returned to Georgia, he sometime wore his uniform to court day in Ellijay. He left instructions to put his union army rank on his headstone. He’s buried in north Georgia; I’ve seen and photographed the headstone, No birth and death dates, but he got that union army rank on there — “Lieut.” then his name, then, “Co. I. 12 Tenn. Cav.”

    In my case, the answer to your question is no, I’m not proud of his desertion, if that’s what happened, or capture, and I certainly do not honor his service to the union army, but I have enormous respect for him otherwise. When I was a teenager, I used to joke that he was a greater embarrassment to the family than the unwed mothers, but it was indeed a joke. He was something of a larger-than-life legend to the family when I was growing up. He was self-educated, spoke several languages and purportedly held some kind of teaching certificate, though his occupation was farmer. He had a lot of Cherokee ancestry, and my grandmother said when he died (at age 84) his hair was still “black as a raven’s wing.”

    I’m curious why you put heritage in quotation marks. Do you think Confederate descendants don’t really have a heritage, or don’t have a right to one or what? Do you think because you hold Confederate heritage in contempt, everyone should?

    And finally, should Union heritage folks include desertion as part of honoring damnyankee soldiers, or are they given a pass for that the way they are for everything else?

    • bob carey September 6, 2015 / 7:31 am

      Ms. Chastain;
      Those “damn yankee soldiers” that you refer to were responsible for keeping the Union together. This fact enabled the United States to attain the “Shining City on the Hill” status so often referred to by President Reagan. In other words those “damn yankee soldiers” are responsible for the greatness which is America today.
      For your information there were 58 units in the Union army with a Tennessee designation, this fact tells me that Confederate Heritage is not as widespread in the South as you believe.
      I am a native of New York State and I am extremely proud of the fact that NY sacrificed more lives than any other State in order to keep the country together.

      • Connie Chastain September 6, 2015 / 1:10 pm

        Well, Mr. Carey, to each his own…

        They kept the union together, huh? Ho-hum.

        City on a Hill — a political cheerleading phrase today that harkens back to John Winthrop, the Massachusetts Bay Colony and the we-are-God’s-chosen Puritan belief, “borrowed” from Christ’s Sermon on the Mount, none of which (except the last) impresses me.

        And you will pardon me if I disagree that the United States (I prefer that term to the nickname “America”) is great today. If I, too, may reference scripture, the United States is like the Whore of Babylon, which is not my concept of greatness. She’s a bloated, fat gluttonous old broad concerned only with her own wants. Dispensing with analogy, the United States is run by a government that, in my opinion, is the most corrupt institution on the planet. Any greatness the country still possesses resides in a shrinking number of individual citizens, not her leaders, not her policies.

        Just out of curiosity, how do you know what I believe about how widespread Confederate heritage is in the South?

        Finally, since you’re apparently convinced that the country’s greatness results from preserving the union, I’d like to ask about that. The attitude many nonSoutherners, past and present, exhibit toward the Old South is that it was nothing more than rich, evil slaveholders, poor, ignorant dirt farmers, and several million African slaves. Why did the rich, industrious, God’s-chosen Union need them? (Was it the Africans? Were they the only thing of value the north found in the South? Then how come so many states in the north prohibited or restricted black residence?)

        How come it was necessary to bully the Confederate states back into the union with a bloody war? The vaunted north couldn’t make it as a nation, on its own, without the dirty, evil Old South? Wouldn’t it have been better off without the South? And what about the South now — which is reviled by certain segments of the rest of the country as ignorant, toothless hick racists, hypocritical holy rollers and welfare-takers. What is there in that ignorance and evil that contributes to the greatness of the “shining city”?

        Just curious. I know what my answer is to all these questions, and I suspect you would vehemently disagree. However, I don’t know what yours are, and I’d be interested in finding out.

        • Brooks D. Simpson September 6, 2015 / 4:25 pm

          Now I know why you value heritage over history.🙂

        • bob carey September 7, 2015 / 10:05 am

          Ms. Chastain;
          I will attempt to satisfy your curiosity as to my views and attitudes.
          When I referenced the term “Shining City on the Hill” I was establishing President Reagans’ belief in the greatness of the United States. Mr. Reagan was a conservative I am not, however I do share his belief in America’s greatness. When you equate the United States to the Whore of Babylon I can only suggest that if you know of a better country in which to reside then move there.
          You are correct in stating that I do not know your beliefs as to how widespread Confederate Heritage is. Please enlighten me, what percentage of Southerners concur in your beliefs on Confederate Heritage?
          In regards to your statement concerning racism in the North, you are once again correct. Racism was rampant in the entire United States of the 19th century. I would be hardpressed to find any historian who would disagree with this assessment.
          The common Union soldier was most likely a racist,he went to war to preserve the Union. and the self governing people It represented. If the Southern oligarchs were allowed to tear the Nation apart based on the result of a fairly contested election then what would that represent to the rest of the world? The concept of union was very strong in the North,after all they were only 2 generations removed from the American Revolution.
          There is no doubt in my mind that the Northern States could have survived as a Nation if the South were allowed to secede, however the map of North America would be much different today. I think it would resemble the map of Central and South America. Europe might have tried to re-establish colonies in the Western Hemisphere as both England and France were expanding their empires and the Monroe Doctrine would have been unenforceable.
          It may come as a shock to you but I have great admiration for the rank and file Confederate soldier, his bravery and grit are truly commendable, however my admiration does not extend to his cause or his leadership. My wife has ancestors who fought on the Confederate side during the Civil War and her beliefs mirror my own.
          As to your thoughts of non-southerners and their views of the South I can only speak for myself. So here is a partial list of things and people {both past and present} that I like and admire about the South. Coca-Cola, George H. Thomas, Martin Luther King Jr., John Mosby, Elvis Presley, the Doobie Brothers. Cajun Cooking, Richard Kirkland, Sgt York, Cordell Hull, John Gibbon, Frederick Douglass. Nat Turner. Presidents Carter, Lyndon Johnson, Monroe Madison,Jefferson and Washington, LSU Football and Paddy’s Place in Quantico Va.
          Just to prove that I am not patronizing you I do not like grits I prefer home fries.

          • Connie Chastain September 7, 2015 / 2:43 pm

            The Doobs originated in San Jose/San Francisco… But their interpretation of Southern rock is indeed superb.

    • Jarret Ruminski September 6, 2015 / 9:25 am

      That’s actually a really cool story, Connie. I certainly don’t “hold Confederate heritage in contempt.” Wanting to learn more about your ancestors is one thing, and there’s nothing wrong with that. What I do hold in contempt is the attempt by the “Heritage” movement (such as it is) to intentionally obfuscate the actual history of the Confederacy and what it stood for. I also don’t care much for the overt romanticizing of Confederate (or Union) soldiers, since doing so overlooks issues like desertion, a phenomenon that involved a whole lot of complex issues and motivations. Those goof-balls promoting Alabama secession have zero-interest in the complexities of the past. They’re using “Heritage” as excuse to spout simplified, contemporary political beefs.

      • Connie Chastain September 6, 2015 / 1:21 pm

        I don’t think the obfuscation of the actual history of the Confederacy is always intentional. Some people were just taught a very shallow overview of that, and other, history (I was, and have had to learn more on my own, as time permits.) Another part of the reason is the perception that only part of the story is being told (the union-glorification part), so they concentrate on that which they perceive is being neglected (or mis-interpreted) rather than the whole thing. Why reiterate the part that’s already being iterated and iterated?

        Besides, my (and perhaps other people’s) interest is more in heritage and culture than history because, like science that can change with new discoveries, history is malleable and can change with new discoveries, or with some historian’s newly discovered (or fabricated) “interpretation.”

        “They’re using ‘Heritage’ as excuse to spout simplified, contemporary political beefs.” Yes, some of them are. So what? Andy Hall and Jimmy Dick among others have mentioned this before, like it’s something objectionable, and I always think, “So what?” when they do it, too. I’m mystified by what they think is wrong with it. There’s usually truth behind old sayings like, “The more things change, the more they stay the same.”

        Besides, the past — from ancient history to the more recent world wars, and more — is frequently examined in through contemporary lenses. Is all of that objectionable, or just when it’s Confederate history?

          • Connie Chastain September 6, 2015 / 5:03 pm

            That’s not what I said, is it? Care to explain why you made this misstatement?

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 6, 2015 / 7:43 pm

            I’m simply making an observation.

            You’ve said rather bluntly that you are more interested in heritage than history. So why do you lie about what you say? Oh, never mind.

          • Connie Chastain September 6, 2015 / 10:20 pm

            I can’t believe I’m having to explain this to a college professor… Caring MORE about heritage THAN history doesn’t mean NOT caring about history at all. Sheesh….

        • Jimmy Dick September 6, 2015 / 6:33 pm

          “So what?” You keep proving that you views of the past are more about modern politics than anything else.

          • Connie Chastain September 6, 2015 / 10:20 pm

            And what’s wrong with that?

          • Jimmy Dick September 7, 2015 / 6:57 am

            The past exists on its terms. You are projecting the present onto the past in order to validate your modern political beliefs. To do so you distort the past into something it never was.

            Basically you lie about the past. That’s what is wrong with that.

          • Connie Chastain September 7, 2015 / 11:20 am

            I don’t “lie about the past” any more than “historians” do. Also, noting similarities between present and past isn’t projecting the present onto the past.

            And lastly…. “Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.” Perfect description of some…many… historians (especially anti-Confederate ones). For them, it’s all about control.

          • Jimmy Dick September 7, 2015 / 12:03 pm

            Connie,

            You would have to prove that historians lie about the past in order to justify what you just wrote. Historians do not glorify those who fought for slavery or those who sought to promote white supremacy through the use of Confederate symbology. You on the other hand ignore the realities of the past in order to justify the racist heritage of the confederacy as well as your own modern politics.

            Why should you or the heritage crew be in control of the past? You don’t even know it and you are more than willing to lie about it to promote a false interpretation of the past.

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 2:41 pm

            Ah, but historians do lie about the past by omission of the North’s deep involvement in slavery even after they abolished it in their states; they lie by sweeping it under the rug, cleansing it, perfuming it … and by claiming the north invaded the South to “free slaves” and that absolved them not only of their participation in, and benefiting from, slavery, but minimizing all their other sins — against Native Americans … Reconstruction, the economic oppression of the South for generations, the targeting of civilians in war (Hiroshima and Nagasaki; firebombing Tokyo).

            It’s not the heritage crew who is trying to control the past. Progressives have hijacked the past because that’s how the future is controlled and there’s nothing progressives want more than control…

          • Jarret Ruminski September 9, 2015 / 4:25 am

            Here’s the thing: none of that is even remotely true. Have you actually read ANY scholarship written over the last seventy years?

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 9, 2015 / 8:03 am

            No, but she may have stayed at a Holiday Inn.

          • Jimmy Dick September 9, 2015 / 9:00 am

            It is just more KKKonnie Krap whining about what historians do to her beloved fictional version of history.

            Invent a straw man to deflect the attention on the fact that the Confederacy was created to protect slavery, check.

            Use buzzwords to get attention of fellow heritage nuts, check.

            Try to shift the negative attitudes to something else, check.

            Blame someone else for the failures of the people in the South, check.

            Use actual facts to prove a point…..no check there!

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