Retreat From Washington: A Premature Withdrawal

Yesterday Washington, DC, hosted a demonstration by Confederate heritage advocates, where Confederate flags in hostile hands got closer to the Capitol than they ever did during the war.

Flaggers in DC 2

Recognize anyone?

It's not respectful to Confederate soldiers when you wear your flag as a cape. Just sayin'.
It’s not respectful to Confederate soldiers when you wear your flag as a cape. Just sayin’.

The organizers of the event expected a large turnout. They were not to be disappointed, and yet they were. That’s because more people turned out to protest the protest than turned out to rally around the Confederate flag.

Flaggers in DC 4

We’re used to these protests in which far fewer loyal Confederate patriots turn out than was predicted or promised. This would not have surprised Robert E. Lee, who complained throughout the war about the unwillingness of Confederate civilians to go all out in support of the cause of southern independence. Lee also groused about desertion rates among his own men. It seems very little has changed. Maybe some folks have figured out that the best way to honor their Confederate ancestors is to stay home just like they did.

The best the Confederate protesters could do was to offer a few speeches and take a few picture on a green field due north of the Capitol, while counter protesters gathered. The Confederate protesters doubtless were thankful that police showed up to protect them … many of whom were African American, by the way.

Although some of the Confederate heritage protesters had pledged to march on the White House, that was not to be. Rather, the event began to disintegrate and the clump of protesters began to dissolve. Most of those who remained commenced a change of base northward to … wait for it … Union Station, with their antagonists in close pursuit.

Flaggers in DC 5

Not everyone was carrying a Confederate flag in support of Confederate heritage.

Flaggers in DC 6

Here’s a proud southern nationalist. He’s looking forward to a future not unlike the glorious Confederate past. Did you know that the Confederate flag can double as a scarf? I know someone who’ll be interested in finding that out.

The counter protesters had captured a Confederate flag, which they shredded, while someone attempted to set fire to it.

Flaggers in DC 1

You can watch the retreat here:

You can read more about the retreat here.

We are glad that everyone had a nice time in Washington and we hope everyone got home safely.

(The above photographs are courtesy of a friend of the blog.)


102 thoughts on “Retreat From Washington: A Premature Withdrawal

  1. Sandi Saunders September 6, 2015 / 10:15 am

    I will never understand why these people think taking the flag out of any and all context is going to be welcomed. It is not going to happen. They dishonor the soldiers with every one of these “rallies”. I am starting to think that is what they want.

      • Rblee22468 September 6, 2015 / 11:38 am

        No way to spin this. They got mega-owned! 1,300+ indicated they were attending on Facebook. The racists own numbers say they had 75 to 350 opposition. We’re told that the rally ended almost two hours early. After the rally ended, they hemmed and hawed over whether or not they should even do their planned March to the Lincoln Memorial because there was no one there. Then they decided to exit stage rear to try and fool the opposition by slipping out unnoticed, except the opposition circled around and flanked the fools. Apparently, they didn’t learn anything from the Civil War. Then the Police tried to escort them to their vehicles at Union Station. That was a major FAIL as the opposition followed them the entire way through Union Station all the way to the parking garage escalators heckling them. They left with their tail tucked between their legs. We are told that John C Hall pandered for the SPLC to do another cover story on him. Begged would be a better word. We also hear but have not confirmed that Hall says that he had his flag taken away, ripped to shreds, and some of it burned. Denny Durham handed out Free Magnolia propaganda papers to anyone dumb enough to take them. Oh, and Susie wore a red dress. Surprise, surprise. All in all, we are told that the message was sent loud and clear that no one wants their code racism in the District of Columbia or the United States of America for that matter.

        They will spin, and spin, and spin, but yesterday, they FAILed in a BIG way!

  2. C. Meyer September 6, 2015 / 11:01 am

    Apparently Susan found a place where she cannot fly whatever flag she wants whenever she wants.

    • Betty Giragosian September 12, 2015 / 9:01 am

      They continue to degrade the soldiers flag by exposing it to the hate and ridicule of dirty looking rabble. I am sickened by them all. Anarchists, haters at all levels of society. One would think these
      people would have learned some sense. They are not held in high regard in Richmond. We are sick and tired of them.

  3. bob carey September 6, 2015 / 11:09 am

    Since this group was by the capitol maybe they should have furled their flags and placed them at the base of the statue of US Grant, then have a ceremony commemorating Lee’s surrender.

  4. OhioGuy September 6, 2015 / 11:21 am

    “Maybe some folks have figured out that the best way to honor their Confederate ancestors is to stay home just like they did.”

    I think desertion in the ranks of CBF apologists is growing at an alarming rate. Time to institute a Dixie-wide draft in the name of states rights?

  5. Rblee22468 September 6, 2015 / 12:33 pm

    Is this Johnny’s flag?

  6. Connie Chastain September 6, 2015 / 1:53 pm

    When I first heard about “marches” on Washington, I was excited and wanted to go — for about three minutes… Then I remembered why my feelings and attitudes toward the seat of government of the United States is about 95% contempt. I think the march was a mistake, not so much because it was perceived to be a failure, but because I don’t think the heritage community needs the feds’ permission or their approbation.

    Having said that, a lot of heritage and secession activism is amateur and ineffective because our community is not made up of activists, and we’re having to learn. The vast majority have never heard of Rules for Radicals, and those who are old enough remember the counter-culture — the lawlessness and salacious self-indulgence of the protesters and demonstrations — want no part of anything like that. But picketing and public demonstrations can be decent and orderly, and more heritage people are seeing the necessity of them (and the organizing and political work needed to back them up).

    Enjoy your contempt and denigration, which are so dear to anti-heritage hearts, while you can … because the times, they are are a-changing….

    • Brooks D. Simpson September 6, 2015 / 4:22 pm

      The change I see is that there are now people willing to take to the streets to counter heritage protests. No one really cares about the VMFA token presence (complete with all those head shots by dear Judy), and the Flaggers have given up elsewhere (have y’all forgotten about Washington and Lee? The museum at Appomattox?). If the Flaggers are reduced to putting up flagpoles, well, then no one’s really going to care. Elsewhere the best heritage forces can do is to hold their ground in some places, while losing it in others.

      But you go and tell your buddy Susan she doesn’t know what she’s doing. I think she should look to shake things up by going back to the VMFA and daring her employer to fire her for standing up for her principles. Let Kim Davis show you the way.

      • Connie Chastain September 6, 2015 / 5:10 pm

        Well, you are confining the heritage community to the Virginia Flaggers. They were the spark that jump-started current heritage activism, but it is way bigger than them now, especially since Nikki Haley falsely attributed the tragedy in Charleston to the flag and provoked the current war on Confederate heritage and symbols.

        The people willing to take to the streets to counter heritage protests include those who all too often commit vandalism, theft, arson and assault. Has that change escaped you or are you just ignoring it?

        Why are you so concerned with Susan’s employment and what she may have worked out with her employer? Why do you fault her for that and conceptualize it as not standing up for her principles? Why do you want to see her lose her livelihood? Besides, the VMFA is still being picketed, and Susan is doing more for the heritage community now than she did holding a flag on the sidewalk. Perhaps you should expand your heritage horizons a little and see the bigger picture.

        • Brooks D. Simpson September 6, 2015 / 7:49 pm

          Sigh. The fact remains that while Susan Hathaway claims she is acting in the spirit of those Confederate soldiers who risked — and sometimes gave — all, she’s not quite willing to go nearly that far. So she’s a coward compared to Kim Davis, although I think Davis’s behavior was wrong, too. As you’ve just declared on your blog, it’s what people do, not what they say, that counts (of course you were defending a racist). Susan’s not willing to act on her words. Typical.

          You have declared that the Virginia Flaggers are the model of what’s to come in Confederate heritage. And yet there was their “fearless” leader participating in an event you see as misguided. Guess she’s ignoring you.

          • Connie Chastain September 6, 2015 / 9:28 pm

            She is acting in the spirit of Confederate soldiers. You’re being deliberately obtuse because you can’t stand her, though for he life of me, I can’t figure out why. Her situation isn’t comparable to Kim Davis’s. And what I declared on my blog is that if racist talk is not matched by racist behavior, I don’t get concerned about the talk.

            She and I aren’t mental clones, and I didn’t exchange even a syllable with her about it until the night before the event. She considered the event misguided, as well, but she had committed to it before the reasons for thinking that came to light. You really need to get over the idea that reading something on the internet gives you total knowledge and understanding about a situation. There is sooooo much you don’t know…..

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 7, 2015 / 12:16 am

            “She is acting in the spirit of Confederate soldiers.”

            Her quick scampering from the scene suggests that she’s acting in the spirit of John B. Floyd and Gideon Pillow at Fort Donelson.

            Susan amuses me. You continue to confuse that with something else. That she talks the talk without walking the walk … especially in front of the VMFA … tells me all I need to know about the depth of her commitment to Confederate heritage.

            We all understand that you aren’t disturbed by racist talk. In fact, you engage in bigotry all the time. Are we to assume that because you haven’t burned down a mosque that we should disregard your anti-Islamic rants? Are we to excuse your intolerance for gay equality on the grounds that you don’t protest gay marriage? Then again, you’ve disappeared from the streets of Pensacola, so perhaps we should disregard your support of returning the Confederate flag to various displays as simply words without action.

          • C. Meyer September 7, 2015 / 7:27 pm

            Awe, now you made Connie do research to figure out who Gideon and Pillow are…for shame.

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 2:05 pm

            Oh, and another thing. The fellow in Oklahoma who horrifically beheaded a woman was radicalized in a mosque. So were the 9/11 attackers. The completely rotten treatment of women — where women who are raped can be hanged for it, and men can “honor-kill” their female family members with impunity — is codified in Islamic law and religion. I am unalterably opposed to implementing Sharia law in this country and allowing it to transcend our laws. I am unalterably opposed to Islamic jihad and dhimmitude for non-Muslims. If you consider that to be bigotry or hate speech, does that mean you approve of these aspects of Islam?

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 8, 2015 / 2:09 pm

            Of course not. Just as you don’t approve of horrible things done by Christians such as the Nazis. At least I assume that’s true.

            But you keep on telling other people what they believe and what they think and what motivates them. It’s somewhere between sad and amusing to see you work on constructing strawmen as if they are dust jackets.

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 3:05 pm

            The Nazis’ behavior proved they weren’t Christians. It violated Christian teaching. The Muslim execution of rape victims and other things I mentioned are compatible with, and sometimes commanded by, Islamic law. Are you really having difficulty making this distinction?

            And you keep on condemning people on your own trumped up and distorted charges.

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 9, 2015 / 1:45 am

            That last line is really funny, given your own bizarre history of making absurd comments about what people with whom you disagree must believe. Take your “Special Dedication to Bob Carey” post.

            I don’t think the Nazis practiced Christian principles, but they claimed to be Christians. Of course, the same is true about you. As for what the Bible teaches people, perhaps you need to take a look at this:

            Are you really having trouble with this? I’d object to these practices. So one could object to practices without expressing bigotry toward all Muslims. Apparently you can’t. I just wonder what you make of scripture … and the people who don’t follow it, including you. After all, most people know there is a difference between Sharia law and the Islamic faith. You don’t.

        • Rblee22468 September 6, 2015 / 8:25 pm

          “The people willing to take to the streets to counter heritage protests include those who all too often commit vandalism, theft, arson and assault.”

          Aren’t you going to cite your sources?

          • Connie Chastain September 6, 2015 / 9:51 pm

            Cited in several posts on Backsass. Also, take a look at the video just posted. Also, didn’t you showcase the destruction of a Confederate flag by these hoodlums?

          • C. Meyer September 7, 2015 / 7:29 pm

            Why didn’t John C. Hall fight for his flag…he is gutsy enough to send me a death threat and to send letters to my employer…why did he not draw the sword at his side and defend his flag?

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 8:20 am

            Well, Corey and Andy, as various videos show, the rallygoers were pursued and sometimes surrounded by a mob exhibiting — surprise — a mob mentality, and the police presence on the scene looked decidedly deficient.

            I haven’t communicated with anyone who was there since the event occurred, but I can guess that the reason they left early was because (1) they didn’t think the cops could protect them (2) they wanted to leave before the mob mentality led to mob violence. Presumably, John didn’t want to do anything that would set off the mob and put the people at the rally in even greater danger.

            After all, many of those making up the mob were reportedly black-lives-matter gangsters. It may have escaped y’all’s attention, but those are the folks who burnt up Ferguson, Mo. — twice — and Baltimore. You know, those people who riot, loot and burn and some of whom advocate killing whites and assassinating cops (“pigs in a blanket, fry em’ like bacon”). The video shows their extreme scorn for, and thuggish behavior toward, the police, and apparently people posting here (except Ohioguy) think it is fine. At least, I haven’t read any condemnation of it.

            It could have turned out to be very ugly and tragic; I think the heritage folks did the right thing, leaving early, before these thugs lost what tenuous control they had on themselves. Of the two groups in the video, the Southern heritage folks were not the ones whose behavior brought shame to the nation’s capital.

            I must admit it’s been instructive to watch the response to the event in the floggosphere — to see the raunchy pleasure people take in the treatment the rallygoers were subjected to — behavior heritage folks, especially the Virginia Flaggers, have never exhibited toward anyone. What De’Stroy calls “heckling” looks a lot more more like threatening and harassment to me. If heritage folks had ever showed that kind of behavior toward their critics, we’d never hear the end of it in the floggosphere.

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 8, 2015 / 9:16 am

            Ask Goad Gatsby about the pleasant behavior for the Virginia Flaggers. And don’t forget Tripp “Defense Fund” Lewis. Oh, I know you would like to forget him …

            Perhaps the reason you hate history so much is because you’re so bad at it.

          • Goad Gatsby September 8, 2015 / 11:33 am

            Jason Sulser who attended the rally with his ThunderCats shirt, once stole a sign from a family member’s hands, crumbled it up, and threw it to the ground. I have no sympathy if someone did the something similar to his group’s property.

          • C. Meyer September 8, 2015 / 12:08 pm

            Connie is starting to understand that their “heritage” in not something all people are comfortable and just as much as they are willing to stand and fight for their “heritage” there are others willing to confront them. And when push came to shove…the Flaggers ran.

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 1:45 pm

            You’re not serious. Really? I’ve never seen video or heard accounts of the VaFlaggers’ treatment of Goad or anyone else that even remotely approximates the mob-mentality behavior exhibited at the Washington rally. And Tripp’s interaction with the police doesn’t even begin to compare with the thugs caught on video surrounding cops two and three deep, screaming in their ears… If you can’t see the difference, you’re being deliberately obtuse, but that’s nothing new. That’s been your SOP re: the Virginia Flaggers since they began. Oh, and the behavior of the “anti-racists” the black-lives-matter hoodlums caught on video at the DC rally isn’t about history.

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 8, 2015 / 2:04 pm

            First you say you know nothing about many things associated with the Flaggers, then you hold forth with absolute certitude. Guess that when it’s a white Confederate heritage fan who does something, they aren’t a thug.

          • C. Meyer September 8, 2015 / 6:36 pm

            Anyone else notice how Connie continues to not address the fact that Susan Hathaway…Founder of the Virginia Flaggers attended a rally in DC over the weekend with known and avowed racists?

    • Rblee22468 September 6, 2015 / 6:37 pm

      Did you hear that there was a Southern style BBQ at Union Station yesterday? They called the tasty little dish the “John C Hall” with a slice of humble pie for dessert.

      • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 2:57 pm

        WordPress’s threaded replies widget, if that’s what you’re using, leaves a lot to be desired … just and observation…

        There are some things I don’t know; but I do know more than you or De’Story and your comrades who don’t have the access I have.

        There have certainly been some white heritage folks who’ve displayed thuggish behavior, but not like what you see on those videos.

        • Brooks D. Simpson September 9, 2015 / 1:46 am

          And yet you have failed to condemn them when it’s been highlighted. So you must approve of pro-Confederate heritage thuggery. That’s how you argue all the time.

    • Jimmy Dick September 6, 2015 / 6:38 pm

      More heritage people are seeing the necessity of them? Apparently not based on all of the ones that have been taking place. You keep forgetting the involvement of the racists in this as well.

      Of course I am not surprised by your omissions. Your silence on the Lily Baumann kidnapping show you can’t back up what you say. Your lack of caring for a kidnapped girl shows me just how worthless a piece of white trash you are.

      Yea, the times are a changing.

      • Connie Chastain September 6, 2015 / 10:18 pm

        Yes, more and more heritage folks are seeing the need for activism; why do you think so many runs and rallies have been held that leftists felt the need to document them? I’m not forgetting anything. I just don’t think the people you call racist necessarily are. Re: your video… flags coming down, heritage being targeted and erased, those have been going on for years; they are not signs of changing times. What’s changing is that people who care about Confederate heritage are learning how to protest and mount a counter-offensive.

        • Brooks D. Simpson September 7, 2015 / 12:18 am

          “more and more heritage folks are seeing the need for activism …”

          And yet somehow they fail to appear at rally after rally. This must be how they are learning how to protest.

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 7:39 am

            Who are you talking about? Rallies and rides have been well attended across the South, especially in Florida.

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 8, 2015 / 9:13 am

            Yes, we all saw the crowds surrounding you in Pensacola. The rides? They came, they’ll go, and they won’t change a thing. The Alabama secession rally? Even its organizers were discouraged. Are you calling them liars?

        • Jimmy Dick September 7, 2015 / 6:59 am

          Yes, the heritage of racism is coming down. What you call heritage has often been nothing more than the symbolism of white supremacy. Those monuments are coming down and you can’t stop their removal.

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 2:21 pm

            Yes, we can. The more we learn, the more we get involved, the more we will save. And those that are removed will eventually be replaced with new ones. (There is already talk of how to do that.) It may take years, but the tide will be turned, because the USA doesn’t have the moral authority to prevail in this kind of culture war.

          • Jimmy Dick September 10, 2015 / 10:14 am

            Kind of hilarious how you try to invoke morality when you have none of your own. If you bothered to study history you might learn that culture wars are always lost by by conservatives in the long run. In fact, the reason for a culture war is to get rid of the false history (heritage) put in place by people that of often was put in place to prop up tyranny such as the case of white supremacy.

      • msb September 10, 2015 / 1:13 am

        Can we avoid terms like “white trash”, please?

        • OhioGuy September 10, 2015 / 7:09 am

          I agree. It’s only about one step removed from using the N-word. It always amazes me how many of the sophisticated PC-types in this university town 30-miles from the West Virginia border have no trouble telling the meanest “West Virginia hillbilly jokes” but would die before saying anything similar about anyone from one of the various “protected classes,” to use a favorite term from their HR lexicon.

    • Joshism September 6, 2015 / 7:20 pm

      “because the times, they are are a-changing”

      What on Earth makes anyone think the times are changing in favor of anything CSA-related???

      From my perspective, the Lost Cause and the glorification of the South have been on a receding tide since the Civil Rights Era. Nothing that Shelby Foote, Michael Shaara, Ted Turner, Connie Chastain, or Ben Jones have done has changed that.

      • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 2:17 pm

        Ah, but what Nikki Haley has done is changing that. In just the few short weeks since she attempted to tie the Confederate flag to the Charleston murders and launched an all out culture war against Confederate heritage and its physical manifestations, Southerners who were cowed for so long, fearing being falsely labeled “racist” (which is charged with grave consequences far out of proportion its “objective” offensiveness), are no longer cowed. People who once would never have shown up for a flag rally are doing so now. They are finding out just how much their heritage has been lied about and falsely tainted as “justification” for its erasure. And they are asking, and finding out, what they can do to stand up to the agents of that destruction.

  7. Laqueesha September 6, 2015 / 3:56 pm

    C.S. forces invade U.S. territory. Get beaten back. Sounds familiar…

  8. Derek September 6, 2015 / 7:28 pm

    For their next visit, we also have General Philip Sheridan at Sheridan Circle. Have they forgiven him for the valley and reconstruction yet? The Emancipation Memorial in Lincoln Park if they want to try there next time. Admiral David G. Farragut at Farragut Square. There is a Metro stop for that one if they can get past New Orleans falling fast. Or perhaps they can make General William Tecumseh Sherman howl at his Monument at Sherman Square? The The George Gordon Meade Memorial is always good for making Lee look so bad. And maybe the best place should be directed at that traitor from Virginia?, Major General George Henry Thomas at Thomas Circle which the Metro also goes to.

  9. Rblee22468 September 6, 2015 / 8:23 pm

    Johnny Hall begs the SPLC to take his picture and care about him so he can feel validation for his life:

    And Susie Q goes for a walk:

    Susie beat feat with Gregory Randall. She skeered?

    • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 2:50 pm

      You mean feet? Anybody with sense would be scared of what the opponents were doing, with their out-of-control emotion and gossamer thin thread of self-control…Once again, we see which group’s behavior exhibited hatred and brought real shame to the nation’s capital, and it wasn’t Susan and her compatriots.

      • Mark Snell September 14, 2015 / 10:58 am

        That speech was boring, rambling and incoherent. What point were they trying to make? Seems to me that the group could put together a better “tag team” than these yahoos. Nonetheless, the 1st Amendment gives them the right to make fools of themselves. I was, however, concerned that the guy in the red shirt holding the flag was going to pass out from heat exhaustion.

        There is a simple way to avoid all this contention: display the 1st National instead of the Naval Jack. No one will recognize it. That’s what retailers in Gettysburg have done. Problem solved.

        BTW, Connie, I am a conservative.

  10. OhioGuy September 6, 2015 / 8:43 pm

    Just one more example of the Lost Cause on retreat. They are coming so frequently now that it is almost a rout. I was in Richmond and Montecello and various points in South Carolina this year (not to mention Pensacola) and everywhere I looked I saw the state’s rights narrative and the Old South nostalgia giving way to a new birth of freedom — freedom from the shackles of the past insular thinking and an embracing of the New South. One might say that Old South is soon to be gone with the wind. ;-). Very few there are that will miss it.

    Nikki Haley for president! 😉

    • Rblee22468 September 6, 2015 / 9:23 pm

      Susie retreated plenty early. She got while the gettin’ was good.

      • Brooks D. Simpson September 7, 2015 / 12:08 am

        I think that was her way of paying tribute to the performance of John B. Floyd and Gideon Pillow at Fort Donelson.

      • Virginia Bourne September 7, 2015 / 7:12 am

        LOL those league of the south morons look SHOOK!
        Looks like Norwood ripped that video for his YouTube channel. He’s been awful scarce lately too. Did he do something wrong? Susie put him in time out?

        • Rblee22468 September 7, 2015 / 10:04 am

          I knew that was Trippys account. I think Trippys been in timeout ever since the Anonymous fiasco.

        • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 1:53 pm

          You like exhibitions of threats and thuggery, do ya?

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 8, 2015 / 5:03 pm

            Hmmm. I can recall a video of Tripp making threats. You weren’t outraged by that.

            Every time you express outrage, one can show you’re a hypocrite.

      • OhioGuy September 7, 2015 / 7:53 am

        Connie, thanks for sharing the video. My reaction is a “pox on both your houses” (metaphorically speaking). I have very little time for the Black Lives Matters group which has morphed into some type of anarchist organization. Likewise, I see it as pure lunacy for the Confederate heritage folks to give them fuel for their fire by holding a rally in D.C. with the flag that to most modern Americans represents racial intolerance and bigotry. Your symbol is one which (pardon the pun) can’t be whitewashed. It belongs in museums and other historical settings. Having said that, I do support your First Amendment rights to use it however you see fit. The glory of the First Amendment is that it gives you the perfect right to say and do stupid things short of an immediate call for disruptive action. In the words of the Supreme Court in Bradenburg v. Ohio you can say anything short of a call for “imminent lawless action.” You and the Black Lives Matter crowd can even call for the overthrow of the Federal government in an abstract way. I would suggest, though, that you start to reconsider your whole strategy. One of the first items of business ought to be adopting a new symbol for your movement. As I’ve said before, I’d suggest using the Bonnie Blue Flag.

        • Connie Chastain September 7, 2015 / 1:41 pm

          “…the flag that to most modern Americans represents racial intolerance and bigotry.”

          Not according to a CNN poll taken after the Charleston tragedy, which found that 57% of Americans see the flag as representing Southern pride while only 33% see it as as representing racism.

          “It belongs in museums and other historical settings.” I don’t think you have the authority to universally declare that.

          “One of the first items of business ought to be adopting a new symbol for your movement.” Ah, no. The answer is no. The Bonnie Blue would be fine, in fact, very appropriate, for a secessionist movement, but the heritage community is not a secessionist movement.

          • OhioGuy September 7, 2015 / 2:58 pm

            Well, you got me on the poll; however, I just checked a Gallup poll and they report 59 percent now see the CBF as representing “southern pride” as opposed to racism. However, they pointed out that that is a 10 point decline since 1992 when the pride position tallied 69 percent. They also reported that only 11 percent of the population said they were following the issue closely. So, it appears to me that us Yankees do have a little more educating to do.

            I didn’t say that I had “the authority to universally declare” that the CBF should be consigned to museums and other historical venues. I said that was my personal opinion. I went on to say the First Amendment gave you the right to use the darn flag anywhere you wanted to.

            How you can say the BBF is a symbol of secession and say the CBF isn’t escapes me. They are both symbols of the would-be Confederate States of America. The difference is that during Reconstruction and the 20th Century rebirths of the KKK the CBF was used as a symbol of white racism and white terrorism. There is no such association with the BBF; however, if you know your history — which most Americans don’t — both flags represent a government whose cornerstone was slavery and the inferiority of those of African descent. That’s a truth that can’t be denied.

          • Connie Chastain September 7, 2015 / 6:04 pm

            Yes, the decade and a half propaganda war against the flag, begun with the NAACP boycott of South Carolina in 2000, has had some influence on the public against the flag. Considering the magnitude and nastiness of the propaganda, and the increasing gullibility of the public, it’s a wonder the flag’s numbers are still as high as they are.

            My point about the Bonnie Blue is that it would be an appropriate flag for current secessionist movements, because it was a secessionist flag in the past. The BBF, aka the Lone Star Flag, predates the Confederacy, originating in 1810 representing Republic of West Florida’s independence from the Spanish provisional government in Louisiana. It was seen later to represent the Republic of Texas (1839) when it gained independence from Mexico. It was flown by Mississippi when it seceded in 1861. In the case of the seceded Southern states, the white star on the blue field symbolized a state taking their star back from the US flag.

            Thus, the difference between the BBF and the battle flag is that the BBF is associated with the political act of secession, and the battle flag is associated with the military action of war.

            During the 20th century rebirths of the KKK, the United States flag was also widely used as a symbol of racism and white terrorism.

            Some of your observations and objections were included in a recent statement issued by Virginia Judge Martin Clarke when he removed a portrait of Gen. J.E.B. Stuart from his courtroom. Hope you don’t mind if I copy and paste from my reply to him.

            “…if you know your history — which most Americans don’t — both flags represent a government whose cornerstone was slavery and the inferiority of those of African descent. That’s a truth that can’t be denied.”

            Alexander Stephens’ comments about negroes in the Cornerstone Speech is, frankly, less offensive than those of famous abolitionist Julia Ward Howe, who wrote, in A Trip To Cuba in 1860, “The negro of the North is the ideal negro; it is the negro refined by white culture, elevated by white blood, instructed even by white iniquity; — the negro among negroes is a coarse, grinning, flat-footed, thick-skulled creature, ugly as Caliban, lazy as the laziest of brutes, chiefly ambitious to be of no use to any in the world. View him as you will, his stock in trade is small; — he has but the tangible of instincts of all creatures, — love of life, of ease and of offspring. For all else, he must go to school to the white race, and his discipline must be long and laborious. Nassau, and all that we saw of it, suggested to us the unwelcome question whether compulsory labor be not better than none….”

            Compulsory labor? Is that not slavery? What kind of abolitionist supported slavery? And Howe’s words imply that she was far from alone in these views. What this means, sir, is that belief in black inferiority was hardly confined to the Confederacy, and it did not end in the United States at Appomattox Courthouse. You may bring up the argument that the Confederacy was founded on that belief — but what do you make of the fact that the nation that warred against the Confederacy, ostensibly founded on the self-evident truth that all men are created equal, then enabled and promoted slavery for eighty-nine years, and continued to Constitutionally recognize it while it was making war on the South, and did not remove that recognition until after the Confederacy ceased to exist? There is nothing in that for African Americans to be offended by?

            BTW, the esteemed judge’s full statement is here:

            And my full reply is here:

          • Jimmy Dick September 8, 2015 / 7:55 am

            What you call propaganda is literally factual education that you just do not want to believe in. I know you have problems with facts that don’t fit into your belief structure, but that’s just too bad. Your delusions of the past are constantly tripping you up.

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 1:42 pm

            Jimmy, what you call factual education is a propaganda war. I know you progressives have to force history (and everything else) to be compatible with your misbegotten ideology, but not everyone is willing to do that. Your ideology taints everything.

          • Jimmy Dick September 8, 2015 / 7:30 pm

            Sure Connie,

            Just keep ignoring all the primary sources that prove you wrong. That’s where you come up short every time. Those facts cannot be ignored while your beliefs have been proven to be lies. You just can’t stand it so you lie your ass off daily hoping that if you lie enough people will believe it.

            Guess what? They don’t. Every day I reach more people than you do through education along with the rest of the educators in this country. I show my students your lies in your own words on your own site so they can see exactly how white trash like you have lied to Americans for years. I showed them the Confederate Catechism from the SCV and they laughed their way through class. They have the facts in the words of the people of the past. When they compare their words to yours, you get revealed for the liar you are.

            Have fun falling into the dustbin of history with the rest of the lost cause manure.

      • C. Meyer September 7, 2015 / 7:34 pm

        So Connie, when are the Virginia Flaggers going to explain their continued support and appearance for and with racists like John C. Hall…LOS, and Dennis Durham…LOS and other hate groups?

        • OhioGuy September 7, 2015 / 10:36 pm

          Pressed for time, Connie, but one quick thought: Doesn’t your quote from Howe in 1860 transposed against her 1862 poem show how much it is possible to grow in understanding in a few short years. Lincoln himself went through a similar transformation from a believer in colonization to a supporter of uncompensated emancipation. His thinking on racial issues evolved further when he saw how well the 180,000 blacks in the Union Army performed. At one point he even said they had swung the balance of power in favor of the Union. Benjamin Butler also had a battlefield “ah hah” moment when he realized his previous assessment of black soldiers and black manhood had been wrong. It changed his whole life. It would be nice if some folks in your movement could have a similar change of heart in terms of racial understanding.

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 1:49 pm

            It’s easy to “grow in understanding” when you have very little contact with what your understanding is about….

            And it would be nice if people wouldn’t mischaracterize the movement and everyone in it based on those relative few who need a change of heart.

          • OhioGuy September 8, 2015 / 5:20 pm

            “It’s easy to ‘grow in understanding’ when you have very little contact with what your understanding is about….”

            What are you saying here? Lincoln didn’t have enough contact with blacks to really understand them? General Butler viewing the dead bodies of USCT soldiers at New Market Heights (Chaffins Farm) and having witnesses their valor in battle didn’t have enough experience with blacks to really understand them? If this is what you are saying, it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 8, 2015 / 7:41 pm

            Oh, this is part of Chastain’s “the proximity of blacks makes whites racists” argument.

          • OhioGuy September 8, 2015 / 8:28 pm

            That theory, Brooks, would seem to me to be a good operational definition of racism. So, in Connie’s view Lincoln, Butler, etc., didn’t know enough blacks to become racists? That’s strange. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the logic here. In reality the aforementioned actually became less racist in their viewpoints and attitudes the more blacks they came in contact with. Butler did a near 180 and Lincoln more a 90 degree turn, the latter having always personally abhorred slavery as he said in the oft-selectively quoted letter to Horace Greely.

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 8, 2015 / 9:19 pm

            Now you’re asking me to explain what passes for logic in Chastain’s brain: the only consistency is prejudice/anger/hate.

          • OhioGuy September 8, 2015 / 9:31 pm

            Sorry, Brooks, I didn’t mean to ask for the impossible. 😉 However, I thought you had a better handle on what she was trying to say than I did. Maybe, I’m trying to find a consistent logic where there is none. That’s one of my weaknesses. I have a schizophrenic friend and when I’m with him I find myself trying to get inside his hallucinatory world. Perhaps, this is similar?

        • Virginia Bourne September 7, 2015 / 10:46 pm

          Connie’s new threshold is that hate speech has to turn into actual hate crime before she’ll condemn it. This she claims in defense of Hubert Cash and some mystery racist who hates people of color but will take their money. Hathaway and the va flaggers haven’t made any such distinction, it’s all gravy to them. See Chastain’s mental backflips here:

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 1:26 pm

            See, this is how you floggers work. I said nothing about “hate speech.” I don’t believe in hate speech or hate crimes. Those are concoctions of the mutation our country has become to enable unequal application of the law. The designation says some victims are more important and valuable than others. My “backflips” at Southside Central set you straight on a lot of mistakes you were making. I guess that’s why you’re so sour….

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 8, 2015 / 2:05 pm

            Of course you don’t believe in hate speech. That’s why you employ it all the time.

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 2:45 pm

            But I don’t employ hate speech. Not even by your standard of what hate speech is.

          • Virginia Bourne September 8, 2015 / 8:36 pm

            Set who straight? Even the moderator at Southside Central thinks Connie Chastain Ward is an insane person. To quote them: “Are you high?”

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 9, 2015 / 1:53 am

            Define my standard of hate speech, Chastain. Tell me what I think. It shouldn’t be too difficult. After all, you write fiction, correct?

  11. OhioGuy September 6, 2015 / 10:00 pm

    Just listened Mr. Hall’s speech. All I can say is that a bunch of half-truths certainly don’t make for an accurate picture of life during Reconstruction. To hear him talk most northerners are bigots and southern racism wouldn’t exist except for the Yankee devil meddling with southern politics and forcing African American politicians down Dixie’s throat. Hmm . . . I wonder why after Reconstruction you saw no more high-profile black politicians from the South for several generations yet you did see them in increasing numbers in the North? Yes, I think I know the answer. If we had just let Dixie go her way, the CSA would have ended slavery on its own in a decade or so and produced a society that was completely egalitarian in terms of race. What a fairy tale. I submit that they would have been more like Apartheid South Africa than the picture painted in the alternate histories neo-Confederates love so much.

    • Jimmy Dick September 8, 2015 / 7:52 am

      Hall just tries to use reverse psychology to deflect criticism of his racist beliefs. He gets history and modern America wrong.

      • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 1:22 pm

        Sorry, Jimmy, I have no faith in your omniscience.

        • Jimmy Dick September 8, 2015 / 7:32 pm

          I have no faith in your lies or those of Hall or the other lost cause losers, racists, bigots, and scumbags. Please keep running your mouth so I can show more students what lying white trash looks like.

    • Andy Hall September 8, 2015 / 9:28 am

      John Hall refers to bloggers like myself and Brooks as “abolitionist.” There are worse things to be called, really.

      • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 1:21 pm

        Yes, I know what he means. Y’all exhibit an abolitionist attitude toward things you don’t like or disagree with — think they ought to be abolished, erased, wiped out….

          • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 2:43 pm

            Yup. Compared to y’all, yup. We aren’t wanting to suppress anything or wipe it out. If somebody wants to see the flag as racist, I might tell them why I disagree and inform them how I see it, but we don’t tell people they MUST see it our way …. the way you folks do.

          • Brooks D. Simpson September 9, 2015 / 1:48 am

            When have I said that people must see the Confederate flag my way? You made this claim, so now back it up, with a specific citation. Failure to do so indicates you are a liar.

            We’re waiting.

        • Jimmy Dick September 8, 2015 / 7:34 pm

          Abolitionists? People that oppose slavery unlike you and Hall who would love to bring it back. I would much rather be an abolitionist than a slaver like you and Hall.

      • OhioGuy September 8, 2015 / 8:37 pm

        I’d take that as a badge of honor, Andy. I noticed when he saw northerners in his audience he greeted them affectionately as Copperheads. Among other things it shows he doesn’t really understand what the Peace Democrat movement was all about. Sure some were southern sympathizer, but many — perhaps most — were simply sick of war and wanted the bloodshed to end.

    • Connie Chastain September 8, 2015 / 1:40 pm

      I haven’t had a chance to review all the footage available from the event, including John’s speech. Did he really say, “If we had just let Dixie go her way, the CSA would have ended slavery on its own in a decade or so and produced a society that was completely egalitarian in terms of race”?

      Of course, that’s no more outlandish than saying if the CSA had won, or been allowed to leave in peace, black folks would still be slaves…

      • OhioGuy September 8, 2015 / 4:31 pm

        Just to be clear, this is my inference from what he said, not a direct quote. I thought that was obvious from the way I stated it. He rambled on for quite a long time and this seemed to be the general thrust of his remarks.

      • Al Mackey September 8, 2015 / 6:03 pm

        There’s actually more evidence that had the confederacy become an independent nation blacks in that nation would still be enslaved today than exists that the confederacy would have ended slavery on its own. That’s simply a delusion.

  12. jclark82 September 8, 2015 / 4:17 pm

    When I was in the Army I was a member of a Battalion color guard. A part of the instruction we received as we perfected our drill and ceremony was that a unit’s colors had tremendous practical and symbolic meaning.

    To lose them in battle meant dishonor and disgrace and that men died to either take or preserve the symbols of their unit or country. The fact that one of these neo-confederate chuckleheads left their flag to be taken and ripped apart shows that these people are exactly what I’ve always taken them to be, a joke. They don’t have the courage of their convictions. I have no love for the confederates but at least they fought for their beliefs as hideous as they were. The only thing this group does is run. They rub their mouths when they spew their bilious falsehoods and halftruths and their legs when they find their views pressed.

    I don’t know for certain if the crowd had a dangerous amount of animus towards the neo-rebs. I tend to take the claims of that crowd with a shaker of salt. I hope my incredulity is justified. If not that’s unfortunate, violence isn’t the answer. There’s no need for anyone to get hurt over the free exchange of ideas, no matter how half-baked Hathaway & Co’s might be.

    That said I do have to say that I bet somewhere BG Alexander Hays smiled down on the crowd tearing apart that traitorous rag as the pseudo-secesh sulked away. I know I enjoyed seeing it get ripped to shreds.

    Jerry Robert “Bob” Sudduth Jr.

  13. bob carey September 9, 2015 / 6:27 am

    A post on “Backsass” dedicated to me, why do I deserve such a honor?
    To set the record straight Connie, I do not support or condone the movement which defames and disrespects the Flag of the United States, but since you refer to that flag as “Old Gory” you obviously do. That being said the Supreme Court has said that the behavior exhibited by those who defame the Flag is protected by the First Amendment, the same amendment which allows
    you and me to voice our opinion anywhere we choose.
    In regards to me having an ancestor who fought for the Union that is news to me, both sides of my family, the Careys and the Faheys, arrived here from Ireland in the !870’s.

    • Brooks D. Simpson September 9, 2015 / 8:03 am

      Please don’t allow history to get in the way of heritage … or allow truth to get in the way of Chastain’s fiction. She needs to believe what she believes about people, because hate makes her world go round.

      However, she has given up flagging in support of Confederate heritage in Pensacola. So much for that steadfast support of the cause.

  14. bob carey September 9, 2015 / 6:48 am

    Dr. Simpson;
    As you know I am a relative newcomer to this blog,and I sometimes I have to play catch up especially on all this Confederate Heritage stuff.
    Chastain has dedicated a post to me and stated that I am a comrade of the people on Crossroads, I must have struck a nerve somehow.
    As a newcomer, permit me to ask a question. Does your blog have a Hall of Fame? If not I would like to attain Al Mackey status at least. LOL

      • bob carey September 9, 2015 / 9:07 am

        Thank you for the encouragement . Next time I’m in Gettysburg I will have to give Sallie a pat on the head. LOL
        Seriously I do enjoy Crossroads and keep the Posts coming.

  15. HBM September 9, 2015 / 1:42 pm

    Here’s a funny one from the VA Flaggers. They believe the drop in eBay’s stock price is due to banning the sale of Confederate flags. [Fact check: eBay spun off PayPal.]

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